Former White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre left New Yorker writer Isaac Chotiner visibly puzzled during a lengthy interview in which she struggled to explain her defense of former President Joe Biden and her decision to leave the Democratic Party, as reported by The New York Post.
The exchange, published Monday, quickly went viral after clips revealed several confusing answers and circular explanations.
The interview centered on Jean-Pierre’s new memoir, “Independent: A Look Inside a Broken White House, Outside the Party Lines.”
The 51-year-old former spokeswoman used the conversation to reiterate her belief that Democrats “betrayed” Biden during the months leading up to his decision to end his reelection campaign last year.
“You feel like you had to leave the Democratic Party because of the way it treated Joe Biden,” Chotiner said. “How did it treat Joe Biden?”
“I call it a betrayal,” Jean-Pierre responded. “It was an all-out, full-on campaign to embarrass him, to push him out… And I just thought to myself, this man is one of the most decent people that I know. And objectively, it was a good presidency.”
When Chotiner pressed her on how she could leave the party after calling President Donald Trump a “threat to democracy,” Jean-Pierre replied, “Well, I mean, I just laid it out. There was an obvious campaign. You just had to watch.”
As the interview went on, Jean-Pierre’s answers became increasingly difficult to follow.
Asked why Democratic leaders wanted Biden to step aside, she said, “Because they believed that he needed to step aside,” before adding that her perspective as “a Black woman who is part of the LGBTQ community” informed her view of how the party failed to protect “vulnerable people.”
“I’m a little unclear about what this has to do with Democratic leaders and many Democrats thinking that Joe Biden was going to lose to Donald Trump,” Chotiner replied.
Jean-Pierre doubled down:
“Nobody knows anything. Nobody knows what would’ve happened. People also thought that if you replace Joe Biden we were going to win, or have a better chance of winning. Millions of people who showed up in 2020 didn’t show up in 2024. There was an incumbency issue as well.”
“I’m not sure what you’re saying,” Chotiner interjected.
Jean-Pierre maintained that Democratic leaders “embarrassed” Biden after his performance in the June 2024 debate, where he stumbled repeatedly and lost his train of thought on national television.
The fallout led to panic across the Democratic Party, ending with Biden’s withdrawal on July 21 and his endorsement of then–Vice President Kamala Harris, who went on to lose to Trump in November.
“I watched Democratic leadership abandon, and in the end betray, a man who’d led our country through a pandemic and a time of historic political turmoil,” Jean-Pierre said.
She argued that her departure from the party was about “dignity,” not disloyalty. “Treating somebody with dignity is not the same as loyalty,” she said.
When pressed on whether Biden’s age made him unfit for another term, Jean-Pierre insisted she “did not see anything that would’ve given me concern,” even as she acknowledged his age.
“He was older. He talked about not speaking as well as he used to. But he was engaged, on top of policy, challenging his staff.”
Chotiner cited Biden’s halting ABC News interview after the debate as evidence of his decline. “When I watched that, I thought, ‘This man should not be president for four more years,’” he said.
“I’m not the only person who feels this,” Jean-Pierre responded.
“I’m just the one speaking very loudly. I’m the person who’s saying the quiet thing out loud.”
Later in the interview, she said she no longer felt “seen” in a Democratic Party that she claimed has stopped protecting marginalized groups. “They’re throwing the LGBTQ community under the bus. They’re not fighting enough for migrants and immigrants,” she said.
Jean-Pierre also defended Harris, calling it “an insult” that Democrats hesitated to back her as the nominee after Biden’s exit. But when asked if she believed Harris could have won, Jean-Pierre admitted, “The truth was, I never really believed Harris could win.”
The exchange ended with Chotiner observing that many Democrats simply concluded Biden was “too old to be president for another four years.” Jean-Pierre’s final remark summed up her frustration: “He’s out of the picture now, and we lost.”
