Former CIA officer turned whistleblower John Kiriakou has confirmed that the Central Intelligence Agency operates independently and often undermines U.S. Presidents.
During an appearance on The Tucker Carlson Show, Kiriakou explained how career CIA officials can effectively shape or resist presidential directives.
Kiriakou’s remarks came after he told Tucker about his experience inside the agency.
He also discussed his decision to go public in 2007 with details about the CIA’s interrogation program.
Carlson asked:
“It doesn’t sound like—so if you look at the org chart—the president controls the CIA.”
“But you’re describing a situation where the CIA kind of controls the president.”
Kiriakou responded:
“This is another problem.”
“It’s that presidents come and go every four years, every eight years.”
“But these CIA people, they’re there for 25, 30, 35 years.”
“They don’t go anywhere.”
“So if they don’t like a president or if a president orders them to do something that they don’t want to do, they just wait because they know they can wait him out, and then he’s not going to be president anymore.”
“They can continue on with whatever plan the blob or the deep state wants to implement.”
President Donald Trump signed an executive order to curtail the weaponization of federal agencies.
The order stated that federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies had abused their powers and needed reform.
Kiriakou noted Trump’s frequent use of the term “deep state.”
He added:
“Donald Trump took a lot of guff in his first term when he used on a regular basis the term ‘deep state.’”
“I argued from the very beginning, it is a deep state.”
“Maybe you don’t like the terminology.”
“You don’t have to call it the deep state.”
“You can call it the federal bureaucracy.”
“You can call it the state.”
“But the truth is that it exists.”
Carlson agreed:
“I would say by definition, you just described it, the president.”
“By the way, the elected representatives who are the instrument of the population through which they control their government are perennial.”
“They come and go.”
“The people who carry out those orders remain.”
“So, over time, they are the ones with the power.”
Kiriakou also weighed in on changes underway at the CIA.
He discussed the overhaul of internal agency structures.
Watch:
This came after CIA Director John Ratcliffe announced plans to reduce politicization within the agency.
Ratcliffe also pledged to eliminate structural inefficiencies.
In his remarks, Ratcliffe called the CIA’s operating environment:
“The most challenging national security environment in our nation’s history.”
Kiriakou revisited a controversy involving former House Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Jane Harman.
He recalled how Harman denied knowledge of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation program.
Kiriakou strongly disputed her claim.
He said:
“Reporters went to her and said, ‘Hey, what about this torture program?’ She said, ‘I didn’t know anything about the torture program,’”
“She was lying.”
“I said, and I remember saying it to the New York Times.”
“I said, ‘She was in the room when it was briefed.’”
“When she was challenged, she said, ‘Oh, yeah, I remember that day.”
“But you know what? I got up, and I left early, and I left one of my aides as a notetaker, and he never briefed me,’ which is also a lie,” he added.
Kiriakou served at the CIA from 1990 to 2004.
He became publicly known in 2007 after revealing the agency’s use of waterboarding on detainees.
In 2012, he was charged under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
He was sentenced to 30 months in prison for disclosing the identity of a covert office.
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